The premise
is about the failures of devolution without a strong sense of nationhood and
Welsh Government’s past and present to create a new Wales, one that tackles our
long standing economic and social problems, innovates and stands up for the
Welsh language and culture, something predicted by Saunders Lewis as Tim
Williams explains ‘I derive no
satisfaction from the twin facts that the Welsh language is bleeding to death
along with the absence of any real force behind Welsh nationhood – apart from a
devolution settlement a bare majority voted for. I am reminded that Saunders
Lewis, the founder of the Welsh Nationalist Party, was opposed to bilingualism
as the objective of a Welsh Government. He knew there were no examples of a
nation anywhere which spoke two languages other than as a path to the triumph
of one over the other. He also warned that if self-government was attained
before a future for Welsh was secured then it wouldn't have one. He was right
on both counts.’
Labour should
take most of the blame for the limited ambition, the acceptance of the status
quo that continues to go unchallenged and the inaction, inertia and outright
failures of the Welsh Government and civil service over the last 13 years as it’s
presided over the political agenda albeit in coalition with the Lib Dems and
Plaid Cymru.
But what does
it say when the best case for full blooded independence and the most coherent
demolition of Labour’s record in Welsh Government comes from a former New
Labour advisor to the Blair Government and not by Plaid Cymru, the supposed
nationalist party of Wales?
14 comments:
It is a very good article although some of the facts are a bit distorted.
But where exactly does he call for "full blooded independence"?
If Plaid Cymru wants more people to vote for it, it shouldn't call for full blooded independence. My reckoning is that Plaid has realised it doesn't have enough seats or votes and wants to get more.
The Welsh Government should be the ones deciding how the country is run (within the devolved areas) and showing some desperately needed leadership beyond the confines of devolution. On that count the article is spot on. The article points out the need for dynamic leaders, a reinvigorated trade union movement (at the moment it is moribund), and a more passionate Labour party (likewise).
It doesn't call for independence anywhere and that's the wrong question to focus on in Wales' current political and economic state.
Its not explicit anon, but the logic of Tim Williams argument that devolution needs a stronger cultural Welsh identity with a vibrant Welsh language clashes with the UK Government interest in just economic or social devolution in Wales, meaning what he calls for can only be achieved with independence.
Anon is rattled by your post can’t think why, the Nats are an irrelevance in Wales, like the Lib Dems in the UK Government.
As for Tim ‘nice but dim’ Williams he’s dreaming if he thinks the Labour Party isn't strong or the Trade Union movement isn't hugely influential in Wales and we need more socialism to get our economy moving.
This is an edited version of a comment I left on the origonal
The article basically lamblasts a Welsh (Labour) govt. for it’s lack of ambition. I am left somewhat confused though by some seemingly major contradictions in the article. Such as where the author seems to be advocating more national passion and a drive by the Welsh Govt to nationalise Wales through things such as the language and yet in the very same paragraph reveals that it was this very fear that a Welsh Govt would do this that led him to campaign against devolution back in ’97.
I am left somewhat confused by some seemingly major contradictions in the article. Such as where the author seems to be advocating more national passion and a drive by the Welsh Govt to nationalise Wales through things such as the language and yet in the very same paragraph reveals that it was this very fear that a Welsh Govt would do this that led him to campaign against devolution back in ’97.
Agree with Dai the article is confused, but ACoP reading of it is right, Tim is pointing out devolution needs more passion, energy and fire focused on Welsh culture and language because we’ve ended up with the worst of all worlds since devolution was introduced. a Labour Party who can’t be bothered and Plaid Cymru too scared of their own shadow to fight for Welsh interests.
Tim Williams Click on Wales article is nothing more than him admitting he was wrong to vote no in 1997, but it’s dressed up as a big important think piece which culminates in a strong argument for independence almost by default. better than anything Plaid Cymru has come up with in years as you said.
Sadly Plaid lost its rebel streak years ago and for all the hype Leanne Wood isn't the answer, but is anyone from any party brave enough to rock the boat in Wales these days?
Anon 1:56 i'm not rattled at all. I think it's a great article and Tim Williams always rocks the boat.
I just thought ACoP leaps to a really pronounced conclusion. I also think ACoP is a great blog by the way I just disagree with that one point.
We need nation building, not "full blooded independence". And the passion Tim Williams is calling for is the central ingredient that is currently missing.
"The Nats" aren't an irrelevance in Wales any more than the Lib Dems are in the UK Govt. I know Lib Dem-bashing is in fashion but the reality is that their involvement means we don't have a full-blooded Tory government. I still think the UK Government is fundamentally wrong but we're in a multi-party era now both at the UK and Welsh political levels.
Crude comments about some parties being "irrelevant" completely miss the point. Even in Wales with an historically strong Labour party the three other parties have chances to influence politics because of the electoral system.
Also the idea that Tim Williams, practically a Blairite in the past, is promoting "more socialism" is a complete fantasy. Williams is a very interesting but contradictory figure, as Dai Williams notes.
I think people including the author and commenters are being too generous to Tim. It's easy to have a rebel streak and point to the weakness of devolution, but he isn't actually offering anything to strengthen it; he's using Wales' weakness under Labour to retrospectively justify his 97 stance. He's not offering independence as a solution. He wants a more passionate Welsh Government, trade unions, civil society and more Leighton Andrews-type figures.
I’m well aware that Tim isn't calling for independence folks, but the logic of arguing that a Welsh Government needs to prioritize Welsh interests, strengthen Welsh culture and increase welsh speakers along with sorting out the economy runs not only goes against the British National interest but is contrary to the consensus that Labour, Lib Dems, Conservatives and Plaid Cymru to a large degree has promoted since devolution began back in 1999.
If change is what is being asked and many agree change is needed the logical step is to look for alternatives or something totally different, one difference is independence, because none of the parties are advocating anything other than piece by piece devolution that Labour squanders and turns more people against devolution and off politics – which is why this is a challenge to Plaid Cymru, are they nationalist or not?
great post, although im not sure if your serious or just throwing this out to see what comes back.
It's fascinating to see Leighton Andrews being singled out for praise, i never realized pissing lots of people off counted as passion and didn't he used to be Lib Dem?
And there are some interesting comments, but no obvious input from Plaid Cymru, touched a nerve or not reading?
I just don't think Plaid's problem in recent years has been 'not having enough a rebel streak' or 'not being nationalist enough'. The party's problem has been in not being as relevant to social and economic issues as the Labour party has.
We have the ideal party leader in place to now try and be more relevant or develop a more solid identity, but that isn't necessarily the same thing as clamouring for independence. I strongly feel it's better to talk about nation-building and more devolution because those things are actually quite popular. And you can't have independence without them in any case.
The idea that Plaid needs to be calling for independence more often, and more loudly, is a red herring that would actually cost the party even more votes.
I'm also convinced (and hope other party members are seeing this) that moves are afoot within the Labour and Tory parliamentary parties to water down the Silk Commission. Plaid Cymru is desperately needed in that struggle, not in running off to fight an imaginary independence campaign.
To ever have an independent Wales we would need to get a Plaid government first. And Plaid will never win enough votes to lead government if they talk about an independent Wales, which is a deeply unpopular and downright scary prospect for most Welsh voters who are pretty conservative (with a small 'c') and not interested in Maoist great leaps forward!
But I say this not from a depressed or negative position. If Tim Williams wants a more passionate Welsh Government that's definitely true. It should be a Plaid government though. That should be our aim. But promoting independence isn't a popular route into government.
Would like to see some actual solutions being offered. The government needs fire in its belly, fine, but what should it be doing differently? Also don't ignore the civil society aspect. Equally important to government. Who is scrutinising them? What is being done to make up the media deficit, if anything? And also, who is scrutinising the UK Government's role in Wales?
As sad as this is, but the day that Plaid become a party of government (and I mean one with a working majority) Jesus will be back on his second coming, whether we like it or not only through Labour can change be made, and Welsh nationhood bloom it is the only realistic option, this is not Scotland where the SNP does not identify itself strongly with Gaelic, unlike Plaid who are chained to Saunders view that in Wales it will only thrive, when the language does, even if they deny that. Its curious that even Neil McEvoy who originally emerged as a non Welsh speaker Plaid leader who could appeal to Cardiff voters has now began to learn Welsh and use it as a political football (if you pardon the pun) in Cardiff Council. All this does is reinforce the idea that Plaid is just a party for Welsh speakers. And since Mark Drakeford has been critical of Cardiff's LDP in Cardiff west Neil is beginning to look like a spent force. I support the language I just think the WM experiment has failed and its time that another strategy was formed.
anon January 23, 2013 1:27 PM
im baffled by your comments.
There are plenty of ideas around from Universities, Think Tanks, political parties and other governments around the World, what's lacking in Wales is the political will and courage from any party to embrace them, make a positive case and implement them against he vast vested interests holding Wales back.
As for civil society it has strengthened since devolution, but its remains weak and hampered to think independently because of it's financial dependence and ties to the Labour Party and Welsh Government, it's an issue unlikely to addressed anytime soon even after the AWEMA fallout.
A weak media, hardly a new subject but there are ideas and possible models what's lacking is the cash to set them up and a readership in Wales that gives a toss about Welsh politics and society.
Scrutinizing the UK Government, don't we have MP's for that very role, who reports on it is another matter but this is tied to the media issue, again something that is not likely to be addressed.
I could write more on each but what's the point, all of the things you raise were problems in 1999 when the Assembly was set up, 13 years on it's deja vu all over again.
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